A conversation with Charles de Lisle

"The forms are all very internal and bold for me,
sort of these Darth Vader/Ellsworth Kelly alter egos I think. "

"I was really interested in the method of carving with chainsaws
to build natural forms with really robust man-made textures."

- Charles de Lisle 2012

I distinctly remember discovering the interiors created by Charles de Lisle a year or so ago. His work is the result of 25 years of working within the art of ceramics, metalwork, custom furniture, product design, decoration and interiors. His "handwork" is evident, allowing him to create residential and commercial spaces that are inviting, timeless, thoughtful, and poetic. In his widely published project, the William Wurster Ranch in N. California, Charles created a perched brass/rope branch chandelier over a light blue laminate and ply table which energized the whole space. In this interior space for the SF Showcase, his modernist forms push and pull the interior dimensions, recalling elements of Josef Frank, Stanley Kubrick, and Adolf Loos. (It also appears as if the forms of "the chainsaw chairs" were first revealed in this space.)

His sense of color, earthy textures, vibrant patterns, and materials are strictly his own. In 2011, Charles de Lisle introduced a collection of furniture & lighting at SF20/21: San Francisco 20th Century Art and Design Show. This week, June 11-17, at Design/Miami Basel, he is showing his chainsaw chairs and mirrors via Hostler/Burrows Gallery. In addition, he recently completed the interior for a cafe in Mexico City. In our conversation, he explained how he found himself "surprised about the how Mexico city has this feeling of potential, very different than here in the states. " Thank you Charles. - David John




What was the starting point for these new works?

I started working on furniture just for the sake of exploring forms and materials. My background was in ceramics and I was missing the immediacy of "making" versus designing. This form was initially made up in upholstery, and morphed into wood at a time where I had met an artist who assisted Northern Californian sculptor JB Blunk 30 years ago. We began talking about working on some projects together as I was really interested in the method of carving with chainsaws to build natural forms with a really robust man-made textures.

This work is all about the moment and the individual piece. We search for wood, then let the shape, dimension and character of the specific cut help determine the final form. Not a new idea by any stretch, just where I happened to be.


Where did you source this wood from?

The chairs are comprised from one, 17 foot long redwood slab that was salvaged from a grove in Sonoma county where George Nakashima pulled material for his redwood tables in the 1970's. The black finish is shoe leather dye, made in the Bay Area, and is the same satin method JB worked with as well. It saturates the grain in a intense and deep black, which allows the hand and mark-making to be seen in the reflection of the light on the surface.

I'm interested in both the story that the making references, as well as a new story that happens by combining different visual languages. The forms are all very internal and bold for me, sort of these Darth Vader/Ellsworth Kelly alter egos I think. We are working on other characters right now, benches, dressing mirrors, tables, we will see what kind of family they grow up to be.


Why are you motivated to make objects? Does it mean something specific to you?

I'm not sure what object making means to me, other than it is an outlet for expression. I've always been a maker of things. I think in the sculptural format, and I have this ability to engineer parts in my head then realize with my hands, or via drawing. I love the act of "taking away," a sense of carving, editing, and deconstructing. This combination of engineering and dismantling interests me, and I believe it comes through in the forms & styles I gravitate towards making.

"Inspired by the traditional Mexican "tree of life" bas-reliefs I had seen in old haciendas.
Ours was made in plaster by the grandson of one of the last sculptors
in the city to create and repair the relief work in the old churches."

You recently completed a project in Mexico City, the Bistro Maximo. What area of town?

Mexico DF, Colonia Roma at the corner of Zacatecas and Tonala


How do you go about designing an international project?

I was very lucky to be having lunch on my first trip to Mexico in a small retreat in Yelapa, where what was being served was unbelievable. I became friends with the chef and his girlfriend and we realized we all had the same obsession with food, rented a car for a day and went off in search of local eats in the western mountains. Months later they called and had been looking at spaces around La Roma in DF and asked if I would come down and help. From there we combined our individual talents and learned how to build the restaurant together.


Did you spend a lot of time there?

Every month or so I would head south to work on the space. I traded my time for the chance to visit the city and learn from a natives perspective.


First impressions of Mexico City?

Mexico City has a great sprawl that still feels both local and super-urban simultaneously. It's one of those fantastic cities that shows its wear on the surface... You can clearly see each moment where the economy or the culture flowered through its{still intact} buildings : Hacienda, colonial, 1940's deco, 60's modern, and now, contemporary. There is also this interesting mix of the dryness of the surrounding desert, and the humid, dense tropical that permeates your senses… I love visiting.


Any favorite spots to visit while there?

The Luis Barragán house I've toured twice and still find it unbelievable. The Jose Vasconcelos Library is a great, And I really have become dependent on early breakfast at Fonda Las Margaritas.


Is there an aspect of Luis Barragán's work that appeals to you?

The Barragan house really resonates with me: the subtle light, the color palette, and it's overall dynamic quality. Each room had a path and a way that the light and the architecture led you through a very focused experience, more so than a house just to live in.

This house seems to have been made for contemplating. The pink, mango and gold colors in the entry hall, hands down is one of the most amazing combinations I have witnessed. The big handmade lamps and table-scapes of artifacts, the simple low furniture, an appreciation for ceramics. All things I love to see.

the Bistro Maximo, Mexico City,
interiors by Charles de Lisle

Did you connect with a design community while in Mexico City?

Somehow I haven't yet dug into the design world there as I have been distracted with connecting with contemporary art or finding myself surprised about the how city has this feeling of potential, very different that here in the states. Everyone there seems more eager to talk or try something new, or be excited about opportunity. Design and food culture seems to have room for creativity.


The materials that were used for this project?

Everything was made by hand, the menu was to be local and fresh, so the idea was to mirror that and create a local styled space that reflected something traditional and Mexican, but would also feel fresh. We found the simple form of Mexican farm chairs we came across and came up with a modern version with pared down details. The napkins were made on hand-looms in Oaxaca, the dishes all from a small second generation ceramics shop in the city, traditional concrete floors, black painted trim. We collected from our travels both vintage items for the restaurant and great contacts for craftspeople to work with.


The floor tiles. Were they made in Mexico? Are they Concrete?

The green gingham floor tiles are concrete and were custom colored at a Mexican factory specializing in this old Moorish style. Super bright and graphic referencing these colorful screen-printed metal tables found in the market food stalls and fondas.


Where did you shop for the Italian lighting?

I was introduced by a friend to Claudia Fernandez, a Mexico City artist, who has a showroom of vintage furniture and lighting in an amazing old colonial house. She and I both have a similar, strong affinity for Italian design. Most of the fixtures are 1960's Lightolier.


Where is her shop?

Oh god...I can't remember. It was pouring rain my first trip there...! My office might have the address at my office.


Tell me about the the tree?

It was inspired by the traditional Mexican "tree of life" bas-reliefs I had seen in old haciendas. Ours was made in plaster by the grandson of one of the last sculptors in the city to create and repair the relief work in the old churches. Instead of holding saints, we decided on gold pinstriped church candles. He cast and carved all the parts in a studio on his roof, and then assembled and finished at the site.

I admire how you use a single candle in a few different interiors.

Thanks ! I think the walls above those shelves at Maximo are super black from soot now. I love that too.

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"Charles de Lisle's experience spans the last 25 years working within the art of ceramics, metalwork, custom furniture, product design, decoration and interiors. Following 10 years as principal and partner of the firm De lisle, Philpotts & Staub, Charles founded his own office the Charles de Lisle Workshop. He continues to assist his clients produce inspired, award-winning residences, hotels & restaurants."

visit Charles de Lisle Workshop...



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a store visit with DFC : Mexico City

"Mexico City rocks. The level of creativity is stunning, and the freedom with which people can create here is a huge change from NYC, where struggle is part of most artist's/designer's lives. "

"the store reflects a postmodern mix of references, also including Olivia Newton John's Physical video, Japanese boutique design (especially Bape and Billionaire Boy's Club,) 70's gay disco, and also retro American jewelry story and office lobby design." - Tony Moxham, DFC

artesanía (=arte) "craftmanship"

Last month when I was in Mexico City walking through the Colonia Roma on a on an overcast afternoon, I saw from across the street a small store glowing. Mirrored boxes with panels reflecting light, objects in cubes stacked to the ceiling, fluorescent light escaping into the street. Immediately I knew this was DFC, a store many friends in Los Angeles told me I should seek out. Tony Moxham and Mauricio Paniagua, the two men behind DFC, are "dedicated to the marrying of traditional Mexican techniques and styles with modern design to create objects for home and commercial projects." I asked Tony Moxham some questions about his project, the future of DFC, and Mexico City, a city that I will return in the very near future. - David John

Where did the idea for DFC originate?

Tony Moxham: DFC was created when my BF, Mauricio Paniagua, and I moved from NYC to Mexico City in 2005. While creating our new home here, we discovered we were unhappy with a lot of design we could find, and also at the same time were discovering the wealth of Mexican artisanal talent , so we decided to deal with the situation by creating DFC, which stands for DFCasa.

D.F is el Distrito Federal, of Mexico City as it is known here. Casa means house. We had both lived in NYC for around 14 years previously, and were more than ready to sell a house we had renovated in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and start something new somewhere new.

How do you find new artisans to work with for the products of DFC? How do the artisans respond to making such contemporary works?

Tony Moxham: All DFC designs, aside from our wall coverings (which are created with Brooklyn based Flavor paper) are 100% hand made in Mexico. From the start—especially as Mexican aliens wanting to prove ourselves in our new home—it was important to work locally and with Mexican culture and history. We had the pleasure of being able to travel extensively when we first arrived to Mexico, and this was the basis of our first contact with artisans. Since then, we have built a small team of trusted and awesomely talented folks we work with on a regular basis.

For new projects we often travel to specific hot-spots for a given technique and then seek out the best in their field, as it's not true that all artisans are talented! From our experience it's important to work with a team that is not only technically skilled, but also interested in learning and change at the same time as preserving skills and techniques already learnt. Many artisans we encounter are very close-minded, uninterested in new projects, and in many case unable to comprehend change, though it's a mistake to view this as laziness. We believe that for artesania itself to evolve, the people who create it also must. To this effect, we also strive to introduce artisans working in different techniques to each other's work, and often create projects that combine the work of artisans in different fields.


For those that have not been to Mexico City, can you talk about the current state of the city?

Tony Moxham: Mexico City rocks. The level of creativity is stunning, and the freedom with which people can create here is a huge change from NYC, where struggle is part of most artist's or designer's lives. Historically, Mexico boasts more than its fair share of artists, writers, designers, and architects in comparison to most other countries in Latin America, and we believe that is still the case today. What we really love most though is the lack of competition between creatives working in similar fields. It's very refreshing, especially coming from NYC and it's art/fashion/magazine worlds. Almost all of our friends here work in different creative fields, and their own projects frequently cross-over. The art and design scenes here especially are fantastic right now, we believe in part due to this friendly cross-polination. And of course, the food and fun here in Mexico City is legendary.


Who designs the works for DFC?

Tony Moxham: All DFC designs are a collaboration between Mauricio and myself. From time to time we also bring in contemporary artists to work with, especially for projects that involve illustration. Depending on the project, designs take anywhere from a coupe of weeks to over a year to actually reach a point where we can sell them. For ceramics, there is a model and mold process that is time consuming. For other projects simply researching and developing idea can take months. We work more closely to the rhythms of the fashion world to that of the design industry, so things tend to be timed for Spring or Fall release.


The design of the store is truly beyond . A backroom disco-tech. Who worked on this design, and what was the guiding force for the space?

Tony Moxham: The store was created by Mauricio, myself, and Marcos Ruiz, DFC's third partner, and one of Mexico's most important emerging art collectors a business mavericks. We were all obsessed with the cave-like and fascist design of Diego Rivera's Anahuacalli Museum, and so sought to take this feeling and futurize it.

As with many DFC designs, the store reflects a postmodern mix of references, also including Olivia Newton John's Physical video, Japanese boutique design (especially Bape and Billionaire Boy's Club,) 70's gay disco, and also retro American jewelry story and office lobby design.

the store window of DFC, photography by David John

The future for DFC?

Tony Moxham: You'll hopefully be able shop at a DFC store in NYC in the not too distant future. As with all things DFC, we're working hard and planning big :)


How was Zona Maco for DFC?

Tony Moxham: Zona MACO was a fantastic success for the brand, especially in regard to audience response. By positioning our design work at the edges of the art world, we have created a niche that seems to be working awesomely for us. More recently when we attempted to show our work within a design or retail context, client responses ranged from visual confusion to anger at our price-points and no willingness to understand the complex hand-made and complicated processes we work with, especially from gluttonous American retailers and customers more used to high-run disposable design mass-produced in China or India (We now sell our Mexican-made designs at Lane Crawford, one of china's highest end boutiques.) Art buyers are not only interested and open-minded . . . they also have money.









go to DFC's site here.

DFC: Colima 124D, Col. Roma. Tel: 55 5533 5339

(photography by David John)





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